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elbow1126 |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 03:10:53am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
I have always assumed it was a conversation. You seem to hear it as Jack thinking to himself. I am not sure what the answer is, however it is curious that when they first started playing the song, Bob sang both parts, which would seem to imply that initially your interpretation was how it was intended. However after a few months, Jerry picked up the "voice" of Shannon making it sound more like a discussion. This does make the whole moving much too slow and one man gone and another to go lines open for wide interpretation. I always assumed the other to go was Jack discussing his own fate, but now seeing those lyrics i wonder if it was a remnant of there being 3 men initially in the story. I have heard others suggest that Jack does not kill Shannon, rather Shannon is caught because he was moving much too slow and he is hung. The cut his buddy down part is referring to the rope.
I don't hear it exactly has you say. I think they have to hide from the sun because Shannon has gone deadly and the law will find them if they are seen in public.
This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2013-02-21 11:10:01
This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2013-02-21 11:10:53
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Poster:
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robthewordsmith |
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February 21, 2013 08:18:01am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
"Who is Jack Straw? Why do we care about him? Jack is you and he’s me, the straw tossed in the wind trying to make choices that may turn out good but may just as easily turn out bad. ‘Now the die is shaken, now the die must fall…’ He can find temporary solace - ‘we can share the women, we can share the wine’ – but Jack’s world is a dark world where evil deeds may be committed just to survive – ‘There ain’t a winner in this game.’ And really, Jack’s world isn’t so different from our world – recent events in the forum have shown how we can all feel the need to 'settle one old score; one small point of pride' every now and then. And maybe that’s why we feel so right at home in this marvellous song."
I wrote that, can you believe it, six years ago. Nothing much has changed here since then - people come and people go but the forum dance goes on forever.
Hope you're well, L. I'm sorry I've been neglecting you, but that's just me all over.
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Poster:
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elbow1126 |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 08:23:26am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
Thanks for asking Robert, I have been neglected by many worse than you! Very busy these days but i think that's better than not being busy at all.
In many ways it is my favorite Hunter story for many of the reasons you mention. You just express it much more eloquently than I. I always assumed that many of Jack's lines point to his understanding of his, and Shannon's fate due to their actions. That is in a way why i find him far more evil than Shannon. Jack gets it and still goes along for the ride. However most (all?) of Hunter's lyrics, there is a lot of room for different interpretations.
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Poster:
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AltheaRose |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 03:37:46am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
I hadn’t paid attention particularly to who sings what when they start doing that way (it must be after E72; any idea when? But they’re doing it by 5/26/73).
I guess I hear it partly as an internal conversation, with Jack remembering certain things that Shannon has said. To me it's like a short story, where you're more in Jack's head but also with the narrator.
Anyway, here’s how it breaks down between Bob/Jerry.
The “we can share the women … you’re movin’ much too slow” stanza is shared. I hear this as a kind of memory of the promise or vision they had at the beginning, and also what they tell themselves as they’re on the run.
The Jerry (Shannon) lines are actually pretty few. The first is:
“I just jumped the watchman, right outside the fence.
Took his rings, four bucks in change, ain’t that heaven sent? “
To which Bob (Jack) replies that it hurts his ears to listen, etc. Everything after that (“now we play for life”) is Bob (Jack) until there’s a shared chorus of “Leavin’ Texas” etc.
Then we get Jerry (Shannon) with some plans:
“Gotta go to Tulsa, first train we can ride.
Gotta settle one old score, one small point of pride.”
Then Bob (Jack) with some warnings:
“There ain’t a place a man can hide, Shannon, will keep him from the sun
Ain’t a bed can give us rest now, you keep us on the run.”
Then both tell us in chorus that Jack Straw cut his buddy down. So they’re no longer Jack/Shannon; they’re just A Voice. The narrator.
Short story writing, Hunter style ...
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Poster:
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elbow1126 |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 07:41:07am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
The changeover occurs in Europe although in a very odd manner.
The first 4 shows are all Bob
4/11 - Bob sings "took his rings and left his change"
4/17 - the lyrics change to the familiar "took his rings four bucks and change"
4/26
4/29
Then on 5/3 Jerry sings it. However i think all the circulating versions of this Jack Straw have the overdubbed lyrics as it is the one that is on the original E72 album. So I'm not sure that we can say for sure that Jerry actually sang it during the concert. The next night Bob takes the Shannon lines and also does so on 5/7.
Then on 5/10 Jerry takes over although on this night he sings "two bucks and change.
Here are the rest of the shows it was played during the tour:
5//11
5/18 - Actually Bob starts singing the first Shannon line with Jerry but than backs out and lets Jerry take the part
5/23
5/24
5/25
5/26
I only question the 5/3 vocals because by the time they had done the overdubbing for Europe '72 they had clearly decided to do the song with both Bob and Jerry doing the vocals and that may be how they wanted the first commercial release of the song to be. This would of course beg the question why wouldn't they just use one of the Lyceum versions or 5/11? The only explanation i can come up with is they liked the music better from Paris and they were redoing the vocals anyways.
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AltheaRose |
Date:
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February 22, 2013 12:04:40am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
Yes, I always heard it that way until I saw it written down. Bob slurs it, so it's fer bucks n change. "For bucks and change" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but neither does "took his rings, four bucks in change." It should be "took his rings, four bucks AND change," or it should be "took his rings AND four bucks in change." Lucky Hunter not to have an editor picking at that stuff and ruining his scansion.
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elbow1126 |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 09:28:58am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
I always thought it was 4 bucks and change but i also posted those lyrics earlier and it does say 4 bucks in change. Who carries 4 bucks in change in their pocket? Dude deserved it.....
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craven714 |
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February 21, 2013 10:15:16am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
BD~ never thought of "for bucks and change". Thats a
mind opener. I always understood as "4 bucks and change".
Great dissection of the song AR, L, rob and bd. Damn I love this place:)
Excellent takes on a song that we have been listening to for
a couple decades at least: Fresh light on it.
At least you know what they mean when they say," We used
to play for silver, now we play for Clive".
http://www.latimes.com/features/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-0220-clive-davis-20130220,0,7030561.story
What my minds eye sees in SDH on his way to work:
(substitute Jack Straw for John Fogerty)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnpO8_WwBjADude deserved it? ... The dude abides.
But you are right L. Who carries 4 bucks and change?
Only a moron:
Attachment: _4_.jpg
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Poster:
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johnnyonthespot |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 02:36:38pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
" Who carries 4 bucks in change in their pocket? Dude deserved it..... "
That's funny. BUT what if it was four silver dollars? That's a lot better than fifty pennies, 100 dimes, etc etc
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Poster:
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elbow1126 |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 03:15:40pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
Yeah you're probably right, besides SDH carries a roll of dimes in his pocket because he thinks it will help impress the ladies.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 04:02:01pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
I always heard it as a conversation between two; and, Hunter got it wrong:
It is CLEARLY "...butts and change" (a common ref to getting enough for smokes out West, with just a little left over).
;)
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Poster:
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robthewordsmith |
Date:
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February 21, 2013 09:54:40am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Jack Straw or Shannon? |
Those two-bit pieces don't buy so much as they done before anyway.
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